年轻邓肯太可怕，强行带马刺飞！其他首发仅一人得分上双年轻邓肯太可怕

年轻邓肯太可怕，强行带着马刺飞！其他首发只有一人得分上双

Tim Duncan"s 2003 carry-job put into perspective

蒂姆-邓肯在2003年总决赛的超神表现是什么概念呢？请听我慢慢道来。

The 2003 San Antonio Spurs ran a starting 5 of:

A sophomore point guard who averaged 14ppg in Tony Parker

A rookie shooting guard who averaged 8ppg in Manu Ginobili

A 3&D role-player who averaged 7ppg in Bruce Bowen

The best power forward in the league who averaged 26ppg in Tim Duncan

A HOF big-man in his last season who averaged 8ppg in David Robinson

2003年的圣安东尼奥马刺队的首发五虎是：

场均14分的二年级控球后卫托尼-帕克

场均8分的新秀得分后卫马努-吉诺比利

场均7分的3D角色球员布鲁斯-鲍文

[–][TOR] Hakeem Olajuwon60-22 462 指標 8小時前

Don"t forget his disgusting Finals performance: 24.2 PPG / 17.0 RPG / 5.3 APG / 1.0 SPG / 5.3 BPG

In Game 1 he recorded 32 points, 20 rebounds, 6 assists, 3 steals, 7 blocks

In Game 6 (to win it) he recorded 21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists, 8 blocks

千万别忘了邓肯在总决赛残暴的场均数据：

[–][LAL] Nick Youngasharifa24 70 指標 8小時前

Would the starting 5 of Dunn/Mason/Green/AD/Dirk also be coached by Pop?

还是波波执教“邓恩/梅森/格林/戴维斯/诺维茨基”的首发阵容吗？

[–][HOU] James HardenBilololololol 630 指標 8小時前

Stats don"t mean it"s the same player lmao

回复楼主：数据相似不能说明两个球员可以相互替代啊。

[–]Knicks BandwagonElccg 151 指標 8小時前

i wish there was an analytics version of this ... i liked the idea though

多希望能有一个相关的分析学模型啊……不过楼主的脑洞还是开的很大的，我喜欢。

[–]WarriorsSpecCRA 56 指標 6小時前

It"s very possible to find a more similar player season with a better combination of metrics. I will get to work on this!

很有可能存在一种用更好的指标组合来确定两个球员能否相互替代的方法。我得好好研究一下这个！

[–]d7bhw2 102 指標 6小時前

Draymond and Kelly Olynyk are both scoring 11 ppg...they must be equivalent players lol

德雷蒙德-格林和凯利-奥利尼克场均都得11分……那么他们也是等价的球员咯？TX

[–]MavericksFullmetalEzio 49 指標 6小時前

disrespecting my man manu, he was the mvp on europe, not just like any other rookie lol

独行侠球迷：楼主这么比有点不尊重马努了，他在欧洲就是MVP啊，马努可不像其他随便哪个无名新秀那样。

[–]Lakersmonkeyman80 7 指標 1小時前

and bruce bowen is just an average 3 and d guy..

在楼主眼中，布鲁斯-鲍文只不过是一个再普通不过的3d球员罢了。

[–][CHI] Jimmy Butlerkevinisfine 7 指標 3小時前*

Agreed. I would also argue that Dirk is not doing "way better" than David Robinson in 2003. He averages 4 more points and 3 less rebounds, but the pace of play is much faster now than it was in 2003 and Dirk is not the same defensive presence that Robinson was.

同意楼上老哥们的质疑，我也想说上两句。我认为德克并没有“比2003年的罗宾逊好太多”。德克场均得分比那个赛季的罗宾逊多4分，但是场均篮板少了3个。但是这个时代的比赛节奏比03年快得多，德克的防守也跟当年的上将没法比。

[–]Timberwolvesminneapolisboy 24 指標 8小時前

Spurs fans are starting to live in the past already

森林狼球迷：哎，马刺球迷这就开始沉浸在过去了嘛？

[–][SAS] Cherokee Parkssmileywaters 54 指標 3小時前

well, tbh its nice having a past worth remembering.

马刺球迷：最起码我刺还有一段值得回忆的过去啊。

[–]Magic TankwagonACWLP 129 指標 8小時前

So much disrespect to David Robinson and the Spurs role players who if nothing else were generally quality defenders who executed the scheme well. D Rob in particular was still one of the best defensive players in the association, and it was he + Duncan that anchored one of the best defensive seasons NBA history.

Not remotely comparable to Anthony Davis taking the Pelicans to a championship.

这么替换对大卫-罗宾逊和马刺的角色球员也太不尊重了。他们最次最次也基本都是高水平的防守者和出色的战术执行者。大卫-罗宾逊当时仍然是联盟中最好的几个防守球员之一，也正是他和邓肯的双塔组合打造了NBA历史上防守最好的球队之一。

跟浓眉带领这支鹈鹕的难度完全不一样。

[–]dirkblasticus2 6 指標 3小時前

And the Warriors with KD is a better team than 2003 lakers. It was an impressive championship nonetheless.

并且有KD的勇士队比2003年的湖人队强。尽管如此，03年马刺的冠军还是很震撼。

[–]Bulls Tankwagonlordoftheslums 8 指標 4小時前

I love that Spurs team but it would be much more impressive to see AD drag his current roster to even Game 5 of the WCF.

EDIT: This is four years before Bruce Bowen shut down Lebron James in the Finals. He was an elite wing defender. The Hornets have nothing like him.

我很喜欢当年的那支马刺。但是如果AD能带着这支鹈鹕挺过西决的第五场，那震撼程度就胜出一筹。

编辑：这是四年后在总决赛锁死詹姆斯的布鲁斯-鲍文啊。他是一个精英级别的的侧翼防守者。鹈鹕队可没有这样的球员。

[–]SeattleSupersonicahs 70 指標 7小時前

2 problems I have with this post,

1.Using PPG to measure the relative value of a Point guard, and a 3&D role player? Like, at least use the stats that are more relevant to that position or role to make the comparision (bruce bowen 3pt % or D rating, Tony parker asst%, etc.)

关于这个帖子我有两个意见：

1.用场均得分来衡量一个控球后卫和3D角色球员的相关价值？怎么说呢，至少也得用和这个位置更相关的数据来作对比啊（比如鲍文的三分球命中率和防守效率，帕克的助攻率之类的。）

2.League scoring is WAY higher today, so 14ppg in 2003 isnt equal to 14ppg today. League scoring has gone from 93 ppg in 2003 to 106 ppg in 2018. So tony parkers" equivalent would be a Junior* guard averaging ~17 or 18 ppg. (*this was TP"s 3rd season, not his 2nd) so a more apt comparison by this flawed metric would be someone like Gary Harris (in his 4th season) or Jamal Murray (in his second) who are both putting up ~16 or 17 PPG.

2.如今的联盟，球队每场比赛的分数比那时候高太多了，所以03年的场均14分和现在的场均14分意义不同。联盟场均得分从03年的93分涨到了2018年的106分。所以当时的帕克应该用现在大概场均17~18分的三年级*后卫来代替。（*03年是帕克的第三个赛季，不是第二个）。所以在这个有缺陷的衡量标准下，更恰当的球员应该是加里-哈里斯（四年级）或者贾马尔-默里（二年级），他们场均都能砍下差不多16~17分。

[–]76ersMrsLeBronJames 213 指標 8小時前

This is the most retarded post I"ve ever seen

Here are the modern equivalents:

Sophomore PG averaging 14ppg = Kris Dunn

Rookie SG averaging 7ppg = Frank Mason III

3&D role-player who averaged 7pgg = Danny Green (Actually he"s averaging 9pgg but he"s the closest I could think of)

Best PF in the league averaging 26ppg = Anthony Davis (Two points off again, but the comparison is obvious)

HOF big-man in his last season = Dirk Nowitzki (Dirk is actually way better this season than Robinson was in 2003, but I couldn"t think of anyone else)

76人球迷：这是我见过智障的帖子了

引用楼主原话：“下面是这个时代可以同等替代当时阵容的球员：

场均14分的二年级控球后卫可以换为克里斯-邓恩

场均7分的新秀得分后卫可以换为弗兰克-梅森

场均7分的3D角色球员可以换为丹尼-格林（实际上他场均9分，但是格林是我可以想到最接近的人选了）

场均26分的联盟最强大前锋可以换为安东尼-戴维斯（场均得分比26高两分，但是这么比较还是很明显适合的）

场均8分，处于生涯最后一个赛季的名人堂大个子可以换为德克-诺维茨基（德克这个赛季的表现实际上比2003年的罗宾逊好太多了，但是我实在想不出其他人选了）”

Tony Parker was young but his game was so much different than Dunn"s. He was a much better faccilator and much better at scoring inside

Manu was way fucking better even in 03 than Frank Mason

David Robinson was still a very very good defensive player and a pretty underwhelming offensive player. The exact opposite of Dirk

Just cmon bruh

托尼-帕克当时确实年轻，但是他的风格和克里斯-邓恩完全不同。帕克是一个更好的组织者，并且在内线得分能力更强。

即使是03年的马努，他也特么比弗兰克-梅森强得多。

大卫-罗宾逊仍然是一个非常非常好的防守球员，但那时候的上将进攻水平就没法看。完全跟德国老司机反过来了。

醒醒啊楼主，别瞎BB啦。

[–]Rocketsjmbourn45 76 指標 8小時前

And Bruce Bowen was one of the best perimeter defenders of the era, He was second team all defense that year. Green is a good defender but Bowen was an 8x all defense (5 1st team 3 second team) player.

火箭球迷：而且布鲁斯-鲍文是那个时代最好的外围防守者之一，那一年他进了最佳防守二阵。丹尼-格林的确是一个不错的防守球员，但是鲍文是一个进过8次最佳防守阵容的球员啊！（5次一防，3次二防）

[–]NetsOmar_Indeed 23 指標 8小時前

I"m not trying to discredit Duncan"s run but you definitely cherry picked your "comparisons".

It could just as easily be:

Soph PG averaging 14 - Jason Kidd (16pgg)

Rookie SG averaging 8 - Kobe Bryant (7.6ppg)

3&D role player averaging 7 - Bruce Bowen is actually the best version of this

HOF big man in last season averaging 8 - Hakeem Olajawon (7.1ppg)

我没有抹黑邓肯的意思，但是楼主肯定刻意选了一些水平差的球员来表达他的观点。

我同样也可以拿以下的这些人来替换啊：

场均14分的二年级控球后卫：杰森-基德（场均16分）

场均8分的新秀得分后卫：科比-布莱恩特（场均7.6分）

场均7分的3D角色球员：布鲁斯-鲍文确实是最佳的选择

场均8分，处于生涯最后一个赛季的名人堂大个子：哈基姆-奥拉朱旺（场均7.1分）